[00:00:00] Detective Ev: What is going on, my friends? Welcome back to another episode of the Health Detective Podcast by Functional Diagnostic Nutrition. My name is Evan Transue, aka, Detective Ev. I will be your host for today’s show questioning whether a niche is necessary.
Okay, this is a pretty cool one, and I normally don’t do something like this. But it’s such a big thing that I had to share it. Obviously, you guys know I talk about my life on here. But I never share anything; I don’t promote my personal stuff. That’s just not what I do. But this is something that technically is not personal, it’s just something I’m indirectly involved with. And it is something that could greatly benefit the practitioners.
Now we have a fair bit of listeners, and this is kind of a first come, first serve thing. So, I can’t guarantee anything unfortunately. However, there’s going to be more opportunities for this in the future. It’s just not going to be anywhere near as quick as this one. And I don’t know if I’m going to be going to the ones in the future technically. Let me stop beating around the bush and just tell you what I’m getting at.
I have my friend Skye Gallagher on today. She does a couple of things for me. Skye is an actual friend. She was a friend before anything else, and I know her fiancé very well, Scott. He does incredibly well for himself, very impressive guy. They’re part of my Florida crew, who I’ve mentioned many times on this show. Skye is hosting a retreat. She’s been hosting retreats actually for about a year and a half, two years now.
Skye’s Retreat in Italy & Greece
I have had major FOMO watching these things. Because this is not your backyard retreat, throw people in a cheap Airbnb type of thing. Skye goes all out. The first one was Italy and Greece, from my understanding. The next one was Iceland, and now we’re back to Italy and Greece. I think those are the three main ones that she is focused on. We do have Italy and Greece coming up again.
I have never left the country. I have my passport, I’m ready, willing, and able though. Skye and I had kind of worked out something that I can help contribute to. Basically, I’m going, and so is my girlfriend, Maddie. If you’ve heard her on the show, we will both be there. You will have fellow FDNs to talk to.
What’s also nice is other FDNs have actually attended these retreats too. If you guys know Ashley Taylor at Ashley Taylor Wellness, she co-hosted, if I’m not mistaken, the retreat with Skye last time. And Skye will talk about all the details in the show today.
But at the time of releasing this, there are a few spots left. I think it’s something where, at this point, with people helping out and other people coming and whatever, there’s only like eight total spots. Some have already been sold, so there’s a few left.
Again, we have kind of a lot of people that listen to this podcast, so we will talk about who it’s for towards the latter half of this thing. It’s not a retreat promotion, it’s part of it. I’m happy to share it with you guys. I do hope someone from here, at least one person from here, ends up wanting to do this and finds that it resonates with them.
Reach Out if Interested
But this is also a marketing podcast where we are going to be talking about some misconceptions, common ones with marketing, and then sharing Skye’s expertise because she is my person that I go to for marketing. I’m working with her actively right now at my own business. I trust her completely. Her and her fiancé have done some very, very impressive things in numbers. At any age it’d be impressive, let alone at such a young age, right? They’re barely 30 years old. I think she’s a little over 30 herself.
With that all said, the retreat has kind of a couple components. There’s seven Masterminds once a week prior to the retreat itself. And then we travel, I believe it’s August 6th through the 12th. I’m guessing you’re traveling probably a day before and after that as well. But the actual retreat is the 6th through the 12th. We are going to at least four different cities in Italy and Greece combined.
There’s a four-hour boat ride that’s going around some beautiful place. Again, she talks about this all later in the show, so stay tuned to check that out.
But if you guys would like to come or just want to learn more about it, there’s a couple of options. You could either reach out to me. Eventually I will get you connected with Skye cause, again, it’s not my thing. It’s just something that I’m going to be a part of in some way. I’ll be doing some speaking with it.
A Niche: Business Coaching
It would be pretty darn cool to have a few more FDNs there. With that said, if the retreat does not resonate with you guys at all, totally fine. We are going to have some great business content today.
I love how Skye challenges a lot of the normal marketing narratives. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, I’m not an expert marketer. But I will say, what she does works. She’s very impressive. And like I said, her and her fiancé both kind of do the marketing thing and they have done some very, very impressive things in numbers. I can’t stress that enough. Can’t tell you how impressive they are. I think I’ve said that word like five times already.
Without further ado, let’s get to today’s episode. Alright. Hello there, Skye. Welcome back to the Health Detective Podcast. How are you?
[00:04:54] Skye Gallagher: I’m doing great. Thank you, Evan.
[00:04:55] Detective Ev: I don’t always do podcast prep. We don’t always necessarily talk before we get on the show. But Skye and I are friends. So, we talked about just about everything prior to getting on this. I think we will actually still have plenty to talk about in this podcast today. We got our juices flowing, which is cool.
When we brought on Skye last time, I know that you were already doing a lot of your business coaching, but it’s shifted a little in a really positive way, which is cool. One thing I want to recommend you guys go check out if you want, when you’re listening to this one, save her original story for afterwards. I’ll put it in the show notes.
A Niche: Working on the Habits & the Mindset
Skye talked about her health story, exposure to mold in a not so fun apartment that you had at the time, right? She had a lot of health stuff going on. Again, we’re not here to tell that story, but she is definitely one of us in the sense that she started with the health side, found a huge passion for the business and marketing side.
And one of those things, Skye, because that’s the main topic of the day, you were actually health coaching yourself at one point, correct? And you were having issues getting clients, right?
[00:05:52] Skye Gallagher: Yeah. So, my thing was more optimization. I was a biohacker. I don’t really love that term. I mean, I kind of like that term. I’m more like bio-optimization than hacking. But yeah, I used to be a health coach.
I used to work more with business professionals, some executives and help them reclaim their energy back, that 2:00 PM slump, get rid of that, keep their energy throughout the day. But to be honest, compared to an FDN, I did not know much. This was like six years ago. I was helping them with their habits and just the little changes. I had no idea what Cell Core was six years ago, what FDN was six years ago.
Looking back, it was very basic, but I definitely helped my clients with their habits and getting clear on why they wanted to improve their health and truly shifting that emotionally. Cause a lot of my clients were addicted to the candy bar at work. When things got stressful, they would reach for the Snickers. So, tapping into why they were reaching for it was half of what I was doing as well – the mindset.
A Niche: It’s Not Just the System
[00:07:06] Detective Ev: Cool. It does matter though, because even though FDN, obviously great program, there are still people out there that go through very basic health coaching programs and have wildly successful businesses.
I think this is actually a smaller point in the bigger point today. Because how is it that some people with really no credentials, like their health coaching certification that they have kind of sucks, right? I’m not saying any particular place, I’m just saying we all know what I’m talking about.
There are ones out there where you’re like, this was a joke, and a 12-year-old could graduate from this. And yet they have booming businesses where they’re actually serving clients. They’re not just making money, they’re serving clients at a high level, which is really cool.
And then we have FDNs that I know, and I’m sorry cause I say this all the time on the show. But we have FDNs sometimes with 10 different certifications, advanced degrees, way smarter than me, way more educated than me and many of our other FDNs, yet they’re struggling to get clients.
At some point we gotta say maybe it’s not just the system that you have, although certain systems are better than others. FDN is better than a lot of health coaching things. But maybe there’s something going on up here. For those on the audio I’m talking about the mind and brain, both mixed together. The mind side is more, you could say, a belief side, and the brain would be more actual knowledge of marketing and things.
A Niche: It’s Who You Are as a Person
So, you could have gotten clients though knowing what you know now and doing what you do. And you actually work with some FDNs already, like Ashley Taylor, which is really cool. I hope I can name drop FDN name drops to our wildly huge functional medicine community. Totally famous people, right?
But what transitioned you to the marketing and business side because now you’re very successful with this and you’re actually helping me. Skye is someone that I work with personally and we’re very excited for what’s happening. So, how did you transition into that?
[00:08:47] Skye Gallagher: I look back at what I was doing marketing wise even two years ago, and I’m like, it’s a miracle some of it worked because now I just know way more. And I’m glad that you said it’s not just the system of the FDN, but it’s also not just the marketing.
Like you could read Dan Kennedy all of his hundreds of books and go to ClickFunnels. I know a lot of people bash on ClickFunnels, but if you actually dive into what Russell Bronson is teaching, incredible. Go read his books; it’s incredible. But sometimes it’s more than that, more than the marketing and the certification. It is who you are as a person.
Something that’s really helped me is realizing that I don’t always want to be on my stories promoting. That’s where collaboration is so key. It’s been a huge game changer when I’ve worked with other people. I’m huge into growth, so I’m always trying to improve everything. But there was a day where I was like, wow, I don’t think I am the most charismatic person on video versus many of my clients are very charismatic.
A Niche: Outsourcing Your Weaknesses
Then on the flip side, I have the clients that are almost like a savant. They’re so intelligent, they can just see the entire human body, and definitely really struggle with the marketing side of it. It’s almost like a different brain. You can either have the marketing, the charisma, or you’re like an incredible health nut that just understands everything.
Yes, you can be both. There are people that are in the middle that have a little bit of both for sure. But knowing your strengths is really powerful, and knowing when to outsource your weaknesses is very powerful.
[00:10:36] Detective Ev: Yeah. There’s this quote by Gary Vaynerchuk, a huge entrepreneur. He says, if you are pursuing the NBA, like let’s say you’re a basketball player and that’s what you want to achieve and you have a bad left hand. A lot of us are right hand dominant. You need to work on that left hand if you’re going to go compete in the NBA. You’re not getting away with just one good hand, that’s not going to happen.
But in business, if you have a bad left hand, you hire or partner with one, right? Like for me it’s always been sales, communication, speaking. That’s kind of what I love and that’s what I feel like I’ve become proficient in. I don’t need to necessarily know all the marketing stuff myself.
I like to have an understanding and you know I’ve actually dived pretty deep into the topic for the last two years compared to what I was at before. But I’m still going to hire out for this. Why am I doing this by myself? I’m good at a few things. I’d rather go hire someone who is good at that kind of stuff.
A Niche: Collaborating to Grow Business
I’m the same way where it’s like these collaborations and partnerships, not only is it like really cool when you get the right people all together, the business stuff starts looking like an overnight success. Everyone’s like, how did you do it? It’s like, well, no, it’s not that. It’s each individual person or group has like 9 years, 10 years of experience in their thing, and when they all merge together and fill the gaps, bam. Now it seems like it’s happening overnight.
[00:11:51] Skye Gallagher: Yeah, for sure. And it really is different to be great at marketing and to understand marketing versus being charismatic. No one thing is better.
Like I date someone who is very charismatic. And he dates me. Oftentimes we like the opposite. I’m not saying that I’m not charismatic at all, but he’s definitely way more charismatic. My point is, I started to leverage my weaknesses by outsourcing them and collaborating with other people that just really are great at social media.
I used to have a marketing agency, I used to have more of a social media. We also did websites, funnels, ads, we did it all, but it was mostly a social media agency. I understood social media, but getting on camera, it just didn’t flow as naturally.
So, example, I collaborated with one of my clients who was very charismatic. I was over here getting on stories and like second guessing, and then she threw up four stories. I’m like, oh, brilliant. And then we sold out the retreat.
A Niche: Self-Doubt
Now, even though I’m not as charismatic, here’s another story. One of my clients who is very intelligent with health, I just naturally talk about him to my friends and then clients go to him. Versus he’s on stories, same issue. He’s really trying, he’s learning the marketing, really, really trying. Again, it shows that he’s smart on his stories, he understands. But the clients don’t come as easily. Then I’m naturally talking about him, and he gets five clients.
Leveraging and creating partnerships is so valuable. Oftentimes those people that struggle with the marketing, there’s a lot of self-doubt. So, if you’re hearing this and you feel like you’re maybe that person that just marketing doesn’t come as easily and speaking and promoting your own offer doesn’t come as easily, I guarantee you, you have someone in your life, even if they don’t have major influence, I guarantee you that you have someone that would happily promote you because they see your value.
Oftentimes, these people that I’m talking about, they have self-doubt. So put your self- doubt aside, start to talk to some friends, family members, tell them organically, just say, hey, this is what I’m doing. If you know anyone, I’d be happy to give you a gift card or buy you lunch if you send me a client. Or you tell me what you would appreciate as a return. Value the people that are the opposite of you.
A Niche: Creating a Win-Win
So, if you are that charismatic person, maybe you hire the health coach who just has had their head in a book for two years and hasn’t done any marketing, maybe you hire them to support you. And opposite, maybe if you have had your head in a book, go reach out to someone who is constantly showing up and constantly promoting their offers. See how you can collaborate. Might not mean that you become business partners, but I guarantee you, you can find some way to collaborate that will help both of you win.
[00:15:08] Detective Ev: Sure. And for whatever it’s worth for people, if you really are dedicated to learning a specific thing, everyone that I know that I’m close with has like really cool skills and they’re, genuinely speaking, proof that you can do this.
I know people don’t buy this sometimes when they hear me talk on podcasts now, but it’s like, guys, I had such bad social anxiety. I mean, I dropped out of a community college public speaking course cause I was so afraid to give one presentation. I literally dropped out two presentations in. The first one was two minutes; second one was five. Can’t do it. I’m out. Right? You can work on something if you really want to do it, right?
But there’s other people that are like, dude, I don’t give a crap about the public speaking side. I don’t want to do it and I’m not good at it. Okay, well it is a heck of an endeavor if you don’t have the passion to drive you to do that work. So that’s really where what Skye’s talking about becomes relevant.
A Niche: Is the Messaging More Important?
My friend, Brian, as you know, he just graduated from the FDN course. Super, super sharp guy, chemistry background. He is definitely more of an introverted person. Now he has a great balance in my opinion, because he understands that about himself and goes out of his way to get the social needs.
He says himself, as an introvert, that he understood from the pandemic just how valuable social interaction is, but he also needs his time alone. My point in mentioning him is that he is never going to be the me on camera and I’m never going to be the him in terms of digesting the knowledge that he can do.
What we’re kind of working on right now is he’s working on his public speaking stuff; I’ll always continue learning. But you give that guy a couple years, he’s going to surpass all the health knowledge I got in nine. And if we team up together and I can talk about the things that he’s learning and he’s the person that works with people, that’s a heck of a combination. So, that’s something that they can consider.
But one thing I also was really interested in talking with you about today, and I know this will all tie together, is you kind of challenge this idea that someone needs a very specific niche. Now, I am not challenging our other FDNs that talk about this. We’re not saying it doesn’t even work. Some system is better than none, that’s absolutely for sure.
But, Skye, in your experience, you’ve actually found that the messaging might be more important. So, what does that even mean? Let me make sure I have that right and then what does that even mean?
A Niche: Getting a Clear Message in Their Head
[00:17:12] Skye Gallagher: Yeah. Let me back up and say, I think picking a niche is powerful. It really is. But the reason why it’s powerful is because your messaging is clear, and it speaks to the right people. They’re like, yeah, you’re in my head. That is a classic example of why you would want to pick a niche.
Now I actually do like the mom niche a lot because a lot of moms, especially new moms, that is a huge undertaking. I mean, I haven’t had a child, but I follow all these new moms and doulas and midwives. So, I’m very aware. And I used to actually be a nanny, right out of college I was a nanny. So, I understand that. The mom niche is very powerful. They’re often struggling with very similar things, and you could argue that for almost any niche. Business professionals, again, many of them struggle with that 2:00 PM slump. So, that is where it is powerful to pick a niche.
The one thing that I do see is that a lot of coaches feel boxed in when they pick a niche that isn’t quite right for them. They feel like everyone is yelling at them, pick a niche, pick a niche. And I’m here to say that the messaging is more important. It’s a whole reason why people say picking a niche is important. It’s because it’s getting in their head. It’s a messaging that’s more important.
So, I actually like to talk about paradigm shift. How when you can help someone shift their paradigm and understand why investing in a health coach is important.
A Niche: A Paradigm Shift
We know that a lot of people out in the world, they might be shocked at a $4,000 sticker price for health coaching. No matter how great you are at sales, there’s going to be that population that is like, oh, I can’t spend that kind of money. I can’t afford it. I’m not going to spend it. Those people, they need that paradigm shift.
Now, sometimes it’s just not going to happen. You’re better off putting that energy towards that middle percentage that they want the health coaching, they want to feel better, they want to improve their health, they need to improve their health, and they truly see the value of coaching. However, even them, sometimes they need a little bit of help.
They need to be reminded that it’s normal to invest in coaching, that this is the way, it’s a shortcut. It’s actually saving you money and saving you your health because we know medical bills are very expensive. So again, here’s that paradigm shift.
You’re telling a story about maybe someone who spent a million dollars on their cancer treatment, or half a million dollars on their cancer treatment or their heart surgery was half a million as well. That is expensive. Now, yes, insurance helps with that if they’re blessed to have insurance. But the point is, if you can paradigm shift with a story that is going to attract many more clients than boxing yourself into one niche, that honestly, I found many coaches, they’re not even attached to their niche.
A Niche: Storytelling is Powerful in Marketing
Like, yeah, I picked moms because I am a mom, but I don’t even really want to help moms. I want to help these other people. Or they picked hormones because everyone’s talking about hormones. They thought this person made a lot of money doing hormones, so let me pick that niche because it was profitable. If you’re actually passionate about hormones, then great. Do that.
My favorite example is Jolene, the author of Living in the Flow. She truly has a powerful story with her cycle. You hear her story, you’re like, of course this is her business. Everything in her is about this incredible story that she has. It makes sense why she went to college and studied hormones and turned it into a business. Her whole story is really powerful.
So, I recommend going back to your story. Storytelling is powerful in marketing because we’ve been primed since day one as a kid, we were told stories to go to bed. Our parents would tell us stories, our grandparents. Storytelling is so powerful in our culture. It’s also how we’ve passed down history. May not be true or not, but storytelling has been huge for a long time.
Think about it. Do you want to be sold with facts and figures, or do you want to be told a story? It’s a lot more exciting to hear a story than be told, this will improve your performance by 10%. I don’t care. But you tell me an emotional story and I will never forget it. Or I’ll never forget how it made me feel, which is the most important thing.
I can’t tell Jolene’s story perfectly, but it definitely had an emotional impact on me. So, I remember the concept of her story.
A Niche: A Tool to Help with the Messaging
[00:22:39] Detective Ev: Well, there’s that whole saying that facts tell, and stories sell. Also, I just enjoy it more. But it’s one of the reasons we always focused our podcast on this.
Cause if we want to really sell the idea of natural healing and that it’s possible, again, we could list off all the scientific studies and figures, and we do have aspects of that on this podcast. But primarily from day one and 200 something episodes in now, it has been about the things that people have overcome going through their journey. What was it like? What did it feel like at that time when you found out you had five different diagnoses at a given point? Right? How did it feel overcoming this?
That’s what sticks in our head; we’re clearly wired in that way. And I’ve never heard it worded like this, but it’s so simple. I’ve never thought about it, what you said with the niche and messaging. You are literally only coming up with the niche to create the messaging. You saying that, if I say my niche is cystic acne, which it kind of is, as you know, for myself, that doesn’t do anything. I’m now creating a client avatar around that and I’m creating messaging for them. So, it’s more a tool that helps you with the messaging, but clearly the messaging is the core part.
[00:23:39] Skye Gallagher: Yeah. And I could go on a whole long tangent, but let’s bring it back to a means to an end.
A Niche: Go After What You Actually Want to Build
I find a lot of people, especially brand-new entrepreneurs, many of them are in survival, I was in that too. When I first started my business, I had $0 to my name. I had debt. And I was like, all right, we have to figure this out. So, it was out of survival. Of course, my first thought was, what’s going to make me money? I get that.
However, I get that it’s a luxury to be able to go after what you actually want to build. But I recommend even if you’re in that survival state, cause I’ve been there many times, more times than I want to admit, so I get it, still keep in mind the end goal of what you actually want to build.
Because so many new entrepreneurs, they set out to build something. They start it, and three, five years down the road, they’re still living month to month. And they’re like, wow, I didn’t even want to build this business. I wanted to build this business instead. So, keep in mind, as you’re paying your monthly bills with the way that you’re making money, also start to build what you actually want to build.
Again, I know passion, not everyone knows their passion, nor should they make it a business. I think that’s important as well, is realize, do you want to make your passion your business? Or do you want to keep that as your hobby and that’s your fun thing?
A Niche: Do You Want Your Passion to be Your Business?
I used to be a health coach. I realized I didn’t want to be in the nitty gritty. Once I finally improved my health, for me, it was more spiritual and it was more, let me just keep my health. Let me not make it as big of a deal. Just live a healthy lifestyle and not be so particular about, okay, is this supplement or is this style of eating going to help me? It was like, okay, I’m just going to live a healthy lifestyle.
So, I didn’t want to monetize health coaching. I realized, wow, I’m way more passionate about business, helping people gain financial freedom. That’s what I want my business to be. So, be aware if you want to make your passion your business. Health is still my passion, but I don’t want my business to be health coaching anymore. I love helping health coaches but being aware of that is really important.
Paul Stamet, he has an incredible story as well. Again, the storytelling is so powerful. And if you don’t think you have a story, I guarantee you, you do. Reach out if you don’t think you do.
[00:26:34] Skye Gallagher: Many people know his story. He was up in a tree, took way too many shrooms. Lightning is striking. He had a powerful experience. Now, I don’t know all the details about how he turned this into his business, but he followed his passion.
He had an incredible experience with mushrooms and decided that was going to be his life’s work. He didn’t wake up one day and say, what’s my niche? He just followed his passion.
A Niche: Have the Right Reasoning Behind a Niche
Keep in mind, not every passion should be a business because some, you just want to be a fun hobby. However, I found that my passion fuels me.
On the tough days in business, I remember my why. I remember that I want to help other people build financial freedom, and also time freedom. That’s important to me as well. That reminds me this is why I show up during the hard days. That passion drives me.
I love talking about marketing, I love innovating in marketing, I love talking about business, business mindset, that pushes me. Versus if I woke up one day and said, I’m going to help health coaches because it’s a profitable niche. No. I guarantee you that 9 out of the 10 health coaches that do it because it’s a profitable niche, they burn out. It doesn’t work. They don’t have as many clients as they want. Picking a niche just because it’s profitable is not the right way to go.
[00:28:06] Detective Ev: Okay. To give people something concise, that might be hearing this and saying, well, then I’ll focus on the messaging. Got it. But I still need the client avatar for the messaging. Maybe we can just talk about the action steps that would be different.
Because right now, the standard teachings that you get online is, I am running my brand-new business. I got a notepad in front of me and someone’s going to tell me to figure out that niche. Okay. Cystic acne for adult males. All right. Now I write out their entire life story basically on paper, and then create messaging for that. That would be the action steps, normally.
If we’re making a message-focused business versus a niche-focused business, how would that be a little different?
A Niche: A Paradigm Shift Makes You the Expert
[00:28:53] Skye Gallagher: Yeah, great question. Going back to the paradigm shift, realizing what their current paradigm is and what they need to understand to become a client and go through your incredible process that’s going to help change their life.
So, example, with acne. Their current paradigm might be going to the dermatologist and going on Accutane, a medication that has a lot of side effects. A lot of people, sure, we might not be able to shift everyone’s paradigm. There’s going to be plenty of people that are just like, nope. Dermatologists, they went to college for this; I want to work with a dermatologist. That’s fine. We don’t need to focus on those people.
We want the people that will understand this. So, the paradigm shift is, wow, I didn’t really think about that. That this medication has all these side effects. Then you tell them it’s a band aid. It’s not even going after the root cause. The medication is a band aid. Paradigm shift. They’re realizing, wow, I’m looking at this backwards.
So, a paradigm shift makes you the expert. You are the one that’s giving them this aha. You’re also positioning them to say, wow, I don’t know what his process is, but this is something that I need to check out.
It’s funny how marketers, a lot of them regurgitate the same things. A few years ago, and I actually really like the idea of a lead magnet and a freebie for this one reason, that you’re giving someone some value and therefore they’re like, wow, how can I give back? Like, someone just gave me something – great information. I at least want to book a call with them and see what else.
A Niche: The Freebie
It also gets them to think, wow, if they gave me that, what else is in their program? This is where marketing can be dangerous. Please be a good human and don’t take advantage of marketing and actually have something better in your program that’s behind that freebie.
Hopefully, everyone who’s listening to this actually believes in what they’re offering and has put their passion into their programs. So, back to the paradigm shift and the freebie and all the marketers explaining freebies that way. You over-deliver some value that, number one, they’re going to want to reciprocate and give you something back. Or they’re going to think, wow, they just gave that? Wow! What’s in their program? That’s the two reasons why freebies and lead magnets work so well.
Now, I’m seeing this trend. Literally yesterday, I saw two different marketers, two big names, running ads saying the opposite story, saying, oh, is your marketing not working? It’s probably because you’re giving too much away.
One of them used a great example, and I actually really respect this guy. I think he has some great programs. He’s a really great guy. But it’s just funny. Maybe I won’t say the actual example. We’ll just say that he said, you’re giving too much. You’re giving them the whole dinner, and then they’re full and they don’t want anymore.
So, the script has flipped. All the marketers were saying, give the freebie, overdeliver in it. And now they’re saying, nope. Now you’re giving too much. I think it’s right in the middle. That’s the nuance, is that you want to give enough but not too much.
A Niche: Help Them See Your Vehicle Is the Way
Even more importantly, you want to shift their paradigm. I always come back to that. It’s not that the freebie is necessarily about a bunch of value; it’s helping them see that your vehicle is the way. That way they still have the reason to invest in your program because we know they’re going to get a better transformation if they actually invest.
One, makes them put their money where their mouth is, so they’re going to show up more powerfully if they invest in themselves. They’re going to focus more energy on transforming because they’re spending that hard-earned money on the program. Ultimately, it’s a good thing that they’re investing in your program.
But again, it goes back to that paradigm shift. It’s not necessarily about the value, cause marketers will argue it either way. They’ll say, oh, give a lot of value. Nope, don’t give too much. I think it’s more about the paradigm shift. Before you get on the sales call, you have to make sure that your prospect, the human being, understands that your vehicle is the way.
That’s what you should be using your marketing for, using your freebie. I love quiz funnels or just quizzes in general. You don’t have to overcomplicate it; you could just literally do it on Instagram stories and ask people questions. Then after, you can say, hey, do you realize that that is a block? And wow, maybe that’s not the best way. Maybe Accutane is not the best solution for getting rid of acne, maybe it truly is a band aid.
A Niche: When Nothing Else Worked
Most people just hear it from their doctor, this is what you are going to be on for many years. They take that as normal. Like, okay, yeah, I’m going to be on that medication and it’s going to get rid of my acne. So, they think that’s the solution cause then they don’t see any acne. Versus Evan would say, no, there’s much better ways to go about it. We’re going to do some blood work and a GI MAP.
[00:34:28] Detective Ev: You’re absolutely right.
As you mentioned before, it’s not like every single person ever is going to be totally on board with your suggested paradigm shift. Some people are going to be in love with Western medicine until the day that they die. That’s fine, they have a right to do that.
We are very fortunate in our space that there are so many people who do need what we’re offering. There’s plenty of people out there that are going to have that shift, and the proof is probably you, the listener. Because for most of us to get into this space, we had to have that paradigm shift ourselves.
It’s actually one of my core questions that I typically ask people when they’re being interviewed for the health side. I say, how did you make the jump into natural medicine? Again, most people don’t wake up one day and just decide that. Something didn’t work; something had to come along and kind of interrupt their daily basis.
The normal thing to do if you have cystic acne, would be to go to the dermatologist. If it’s unresponsive to other treatments, the normal thing would be to take Accutane. These people aren’t stupid; they’re not bad people or something. They’ve never been told anything else.
A Niche: It’s Our Duty to Share the Hope
I filled the prescription for Accutane. I never took it thankfully, cause I was aware of the side effects. But I did fill it cause I was so desperate to figure something out. I needed someone desperately to come along and change the paradigm. Give me that solution at the end. I was waiting for it, but no one ever came with it.
This is something I emphasize a lot, just in different ways on this show. We have a duty and an obligation to share this information with as many people as possible. There are, yes, people who will not like what you do. Maybe think it’s hippie stuff or woo-woo, even though that makes no sense. They can’t even read scientific studies. Right? That’s fine. We gotta let those people think their things and do their things.
But then there are others out there like myself, like my mom, like plenty of people that have come on this podcast that are just waiting for the right person to say something at the right time to them where they’re like, oh, there is a solution to this. There is hope for this; there’s another way to approach this. You could be that person and that’s how you make a sale. That’s how you do business and that’s how you actually do business in an ethical way.
I love what you said about the lead magnet. Give some value, don’t screw them over, and make sure they have even more value in the main course.
A Niche: The Dating Analogy
That’s not salesy or sleazy. Actually, I should say sales isn’t sleazy. It’s not a bad thing. Like that’s just a good way to do business. I just gave you something for free. I asked you out on a date, basically, right? And I showed you, yeah, I have something to offer here. You know, I got a good job, I work for FDN and stuff. Like it’s going well.
Now we can move it to the next level, right? Maybe we go on a second date and this time it’s a little more serious than the first date. The value, I’ve always heard worded as like a date, basically. Like that’s the free value, that’s the lead magnet is the first date. See if we’re interested here. And then you could start providing more and more.
Obviously, the end goal, not for everyone, but for many people would be marriage. And of course, marriage brings a ton more than a coffee date that I took someone on or took Madeleine on when we first met. Right? So, there’s going to be a lot of differences in between there. There is much more value in the marriage. That’s how it should be.
[00:37:12] Skye Gallagher: I love the dating analogy – dating to marriage – because that’s exactly what you want. You want to give some value, whether it’s through a freebie or through Instagram or a podcast, however you’re delivering value. And you do want to make sure whether it’s a paradigm shift or not, you want people to understand why you do things the way that you do.
A Niche: Present A Clear Investment Opportunity
Because how unfortunate if they invest thousands of dollars with you and then they’re on a coaching call and they’re like, oh, I actually want to take the Accutane. I actually don’t agree with any of this. Great, we don’t want those clients anyway. If they’re not truly interested in the offer, one, those are the ones that charge back.
I’ve never had a chargeback because I don’t push anyone to do something that isn’t aligned for them which I’m very lucky for. But it’s also by design. I’m not going to push anyone to invest into something that they don’t want. So, everything we’ve talked about, the freebie, it’s all by design. It’s just like dating.
[00:38:13] Detective Ev: Yeah. And I know we want to transition into another topic here. The last thing I’ll say about this, just to get it in people’s heads, is, I told you I had that little bit of a tough love podcast recently. It is our responsibility as business owners to do this. Because you might say, well, why do I have to give the value first?
Okay, well, it’s like any man that’s ever lived. We see the pretty woman, right? We want to be with her or date her or whatever; we pursue. You are the one who wants something, right? So, you have to convince her why she should also want something from you too. And that means I have to take the risk and go out and grab the coffee or whatever.
A Niche: It’s Our Job to Offer the Lead Magnet
Now, in the case of Madeleine, she was a special case where I’m flying across the country to meet her and taking the risk. Hopefully you guys listened to our podcast about how we met. We have that on here because that’s crazy. So, it’s a little more of a risk than you typically take.
But that’s what it is. If I want something from her, I need to take her on that date. And yes, maybe I get rejected. Maybe I lose the money on the date. That’s fine. That’s the equivalent of the lead magnet. You are the one who wants something, you want the sale, you are the one that’s going to have to take the responsibility to give something first.
You know, sometimes people hear this, but they don’t do anything. That’s just like my little bit of tough love. It’s like we’re the one trying to get something. Your client, maybe they’re trying to get something, but they don’t know it even exists. So, it is our job to take them on the date or give them the free lead. And hopefully if we can provide them value, the relationship continues.
Everyone knows if they’ve been on 10 dates and met the love of their life, it was totally worth it, right? So, if you give out 10 free lead magnets, but man that 10th one was just an awesome client, it is totally worth it. That’s the way to think about it.
Competitive Marching Band Training
Speaking of paradigm shifts and just getting around people who think more like business wise and stuff, I know we wanted to talk about something that I was very fortunate to get involved in because I wasn’t involved in it in the beginning. But I have done things like this before, so it’s kind of cool.
But I have in the title of this podcast, and I mentioned it in the beginning, a retreat. It’s your retreat, Skye’s retreat, she has coming up. But I’m lucky enough to be able to do some things with this. And this has to do with what we’re talking about today. It’s more than that, definitely more. But there is a business side to this and definitely a paradigm shift side to this.
So, can we give a little review of what you’ve been working on and what we wanted to tell people about?
[00:40:17] Skye Gallagher: Yeah. First, the story is that many years ago I did a competitive marching band, which I know sounds silly, but it changed my life. We literally would spend three months in the summer together. We trained 16 hours a day. It was not good for my nervous system or my metabolism.
But by the end of the summer, imagine a bunch of band geeks who started out pale and a little chubby, and then by the end, very tan with six packs. It was probably the hardest thing that I’ve done in my life, one of the hardest things. And I did it for seven summers in a row.
Community Aspect & Traveling Together
We traveled around the world, traveled around the US. I went to 48 states because of it, and a few countries because of it. It changed my life, travel with community. And most of these people at the beginning, every year, it was a different group. So, a lot of them were strangers, especially the first year, complete strangers. By the end of it, we all made lifelong bonds.
It was the journey of it that changed my life. After my first retreat, I was like, this is the closest feeling. And the last time I did this organization, you age out at 21. So, it’s been 11 years since I last did this organization. I finally got that feeling back from retreats. It’s that community aspect and traveling together.
I can’t even explain it. Like, if you’ve ever been to an extended summer camp, that’s the feeling, but times 10. So, travel has changed my life. Again, it’s something I can’t always put into words. It’s about getting out of your comfort zone. And I know for many travel is scary. Getting on a plane is scary for many people. But I’ll tell you, the reward is incredible.
I know, Evan, you used to be afraid to fly, right?
[00:42:17] Detective Ev: Well, I wouldn’t say just used to. It’s more, do I allow that fear to debilitate me, would be a better way to say it.
But I can relate to both of the things that you’re actually talking about here. And it’s one of the reasons I felt very fortunate to be able to help support you in this way and just be involved in this in some way. I’ve done the retreat thing and I understand the travel thing.
A Trip to San Diego
The first time I even left my hometown, like for real, cause most of it was on the east coast, I went to Florida a few times as a kid and I went to the Jersey Shore and Vermont. That was basically it, which is cool. It’s not nothing, I’m grateful for it. But it’s fairly similar all the way, like it’s not that much different.
Then the first thing that I did wasn’t flying, but I went out to San Diego. Many people have heard the story so I’m not going to go into it. It’s the story of how I found FDN. I was so desperate for health solutions to my health issues that I drove out with my best friend Jake. We literally were out there for like four or five months and it was crazy.
We had $1,200 total going out, no place to stay, figured out an Airbnb on the same day that we got there, never done Airbnb before. Well sorry, we did Airbnb for the first time the night before. So, it was like scary for us, thought it was weird, all these things.
I came back, that was just from San Diego. It was a huge shift in my life. That was where the waking-up-early Ev started. That was where the working, sometimes like seven days a week focused, cause that’s what I want for my life. It’s not for everyone. That’s where that really started.
First Time Leaving the US
And it’s where I found the answers to my health challenges by getting exposed to Jenn Malecha, who’s a huge FDN. She was teaching in a coffee shop, and I was like, wow, this is amazing. But then the other side of this, cause I got to see what travel can do, and I’ve been to a bunch of different states now. I’ve touched all four corners of the US, not 48 states like Skye. But I’ve been around, and it really does something to you.
And I’m interested in leaving the country. So, this will be the first time I actually leave the country, including Canada, including Mexico. So that’s actually kind of awesome.
But the retreat side too, I started hosting retreats actually in 2018 with a mutual friend of ours. When we hosted that first one, it was interesting, right? He was great at networking, so he kind of got the people. I knew the Catskill Mountains in New York very well and I could plan things well, so I helped get the activities together, right? We were going to do the highest zip line in North America, an organic farm to table tour. Actually, his girlfriend came up with that one. But I had the stuff, I had the Airbnb, whatever.
We all walk in, almost no one knows each other. Everyone has like pairs at best. Dude, our friend Kean flew in from Miami, he had never met anyone. He like literally flew in from Miami cause he met our other friend online. We have all these random people there.
Business-Focused Mastermind Before the Retreat
Man, you give us two hours and everyone’s staying up late to talk to each other cause it was just, it’s human, man. Like you just all come back together. We’re not getting really any service on the phones. Even if we were, no one gives a crap about the phones anymore. Those three days go by so fast cause that’s all we had at the time; you just wish it could be forever.
Then you remember like, wow, this is how humans were actually supposed to live, in community. Like, you kind of wake up when you wake up, you eat food, you hang out together, you talk, you tell stories, you finish activities that need to be finished together. It is such a special thing.
And there was no real purpose to that one. You have more of a purpose focused with this. Again, not that it can’t serve multiple purposes, but isn’t there more of a purpose for this retreat as well?
[00:45:17] Skye Gallagher: Yeah. We have a seven call Mastermind leading up to the retreat. The retreat is August 6th through 12th. It’s in Italy and Greece in the best of both of those countries. We’re going to Positano and Amalfi and Capri.
Zakynthos, we went there last year for my first retreat. Listen, Zakynthos in Greece is stunning, breathtaking. It is my favorite place on earth. Maybe you’ve seen it. It is turquoise water and then this big rock structure, this big limestone, white limestone rock structure that’s kind of horseshoe shaped. From above you can be on one side of the horseshoe and look down. And then down is like this white sand beach, and it has a shipwreck on it.
The Reward of Travel
Some people have bungee jumped. I don’t think that’s a common thing, but like maybe you’ve seen the iconic imagery of someone bungee jumping over this turquoise water, limestone rock, and shipwrecked beach. Look it up. It’s called Navagio Beach. Beautiful.
We take a four-hour boat ride around Navagio, turquoise water, blue waters, clear. You can see 20 feet down; you can see the rocks. The boat, the captain was incredible. He takes us to multiple beaches. We even can go in caves and jump off these epic beautiful rocks. Check out on my Instagram or on the landing page, I have the imagery from Zakynthos. It is stunning. And then also Santorini.
So, the purpose, my favorite purpose, even though I love business, and that is a huge focus of the Mastermind, is helping you move forward in your business. And then after, in a few months, we’ll go celebrate in Greece and have great community.
The concept. I used to do more retreats where we would do a lot of sessions. But because we’re flying across the world, I want you to truly experience where we’re going and to experience it with this community that you’ve built bonds with over the seven calls.
We did Iceland a few months ago, and after the Mastermind, everyone was already like best friends. They went to this new country, and they already felt like they knew everyone. That was great. But my number one reason why I do these is to get you out of your comfort zone so you can see the reward of travel. It truly is a reward.
The Main Focus
The Business Mastermind, I am very passionate about that. We are going to dive deep into storytelling. By the third or fourth week you’ll have your video sales letter, which that’s what we’re doing with Evan right now for his business.
Storytelling is really powerful. That is the main focus. We’re going to help you tell your story through marketing so that you can help more people.
[00:48:13] Detective Ev: It’s this brilliant buildup of fun, experience, but also business. We’re actually focusing on a lot of the more business stuff first, so that it’s kind of the celebration in a sense, right? There’s this fun aspect.
Of course, there’s going to be certain things scheduled. It’s not a free for all, but it’s like you have freedom within it, which I think is actually very powerful. That’s one thing I learned with the retreats that I would’ve done differently looking back, is some of the ones that I had hosted with various friends were very structured. It’s cool, you can get a lot done in that way and people like it. But man, they’re tanked by the end of each day. You sleep well but you’re so exhausted and you wish you did have a little more time to really communicate with everyone.
What’s even funnier, you’re going to laugh at this. I knew this was in Greece. I didn’t even know it was Italy as well, so I’m super excited. I don’t know if this will be something that we’ll be able to do and totally fine if not. But I’m just glad to be close to these things. For someone who’s a health nut, I think it’s so awesome that Italy and Greece are home to two of the Blue Zones.
Accommodating All Dietary Needs
You have Sardinia in Italy and Icaria, Greece – two of the Blue Zones in the world, both islands. Even if just in remote proximity to that, I think that’s amazing.
And I have heard that you can eat wheat and stuff, if you have sensitivities, in Italy and these other countries and not have issues. I know you’re sensitive to gluten. That might be the biggest sell for these people if they hear that.
Were you able to eat the bread and stuff?
[00:49:28] Skye Gallagher: For the most part, yeah, especially in Italy. I didn’t test it that much. I will say it’s improved a lot since I’ve healed my gut a lot. But still certain things, surprisingly barley, that still gets me really bad.
But I’m glad you brought that up because definitely, we just attract people that are interested into health. Our chef is Lauren, and she is incredible. Everyone loved her in Iceland. They loved her cooking, but they also just loved her energy. She’s such a love. So, she will be preparing 10 incredible meals.
We have one very incredible surprise. But also, we have opportunities so that most of the meals in Italy are not covered so that you can get a slice of pizza or pasta. We wanted you to be able to experience a local cuisine as well, even though Lauren will definitely be preparing Greek salads and lamb and whatever. We accommodate all dietary needs. Last year in Greece we had one vegan. We accommodate all allergies, anything that you need.
[00:50:37] Detective Ev: What’s nice is I know these guys personally, so I actually know that they know what they’re doing with that, which is cool.
Kind, Supportive, & Appreciative Community Vibe
But I’m excited cause I hadn’t tested too many things. I kind of got into my health routine and stuck with it. But so many FDNs have told me that they went to places like Italy, specifically, and they could eat almost whatever they wanted there. They still felt better than they do in America, eating all the “good stuff”, quote/unquote.
Okay. What else I want to know then is how can people get in contact with you to talk about things because I know that you’re probably the main one that they talk to. I mean, if there are FDNs, of course, they can message me and stuff. I’m happy to talk to as well. But at the end of the day, it is Skye’s show, and she would need to be the one that qualifies it.
We don’t mean that in some cheesy way. I’m sure you’re fine, but we really are trying to qualify the people in such a way to make sure that the vibe’s good. Because when you have a set amount of people at a retreat, that was one of the biggest things that I think led to success with these other retreats I had been a part of. We were very good at getting a similar vibe in. It doesn’t mean identical personalities or interests, but there’s a vibe and I don’t know how else to say it other than that.
[00:51:33] Skye Gallagher: That is my number one priority – that people are kind and supportive, that you’re going to be traveling with a group of people that you genuinely appreciate. Now, does that mean that maybe you get triggered once or twice on the trip? It may very well mean that but that’s all about the growth as well.
Where to Find Skye Gallagher
I’m not saying it will happen, but that is a huge importance to me, that everyone is kind and loving, wants to meet other people and meet everyone on the trip.
Detective Ev: Where can people contact you?
Skye Gallagher: Yes, they can contact me on Instagram. I have the landing page for this retreat in my bio. So, @skyegallagher, check me out on Instagram, feel free to message me. We can get on a call, a no pressure call. You can ask any questions; we can feel it out.
You can take your time to decide. I do think it’ll sell out in the next two weeks, so not too much time. But it’s not one of those calls. I’m not going to be pressuring you. Take the weekend to decide and then we’ll go from there.
[00:52:35] Detective Ev: Great. I’m excited. Again, I can’t stress enough, Skye’s a personal friend of mine. I really thought when she was talking about this, that there were certain people that listen that reach out consistently. I’m not going to reach out to you necessarily cause I don’t want to push someone into something they don’t want to do. But I can think of a few active listeners that reach out to me consistently that seem like pretty good fits for this. So, hopefully they’ve stayed tuned.
It’d be really exciting to have a couple other FDNs with us there. Madeleine, my girlfriend, will be there. She’s an FDN, of course. But you’ve had other FDNs on the retreats before, which is really interesting. I’m like, how the heck have other FDNs been there, and I haven’t? I’m just glad I get to do it.
If you guys feel more comfortable reaching out through me first, I’ll get you connected with Skye. You’re more than welcome to do that. Just shoot me a DM at evan_transue on Instagram.
Skye, thanks for coming on and talking not only about just this way of rethinking about marketing today, cause I think it’s very scary for people. And it’s helpful for them to hear from someone who did the health coaching thing. It didn’t go the way that you planned and then you realized, wait, this doesn’t have to be super complicated. I don’t have to follow all the rules; I can do it this way.
I’ll just phrase it this way cause I know you’re a humble person and won’t say it directly. I mean, Skye does fairly okay. You know, like, she’s doing just fine now. So, she’s really learned this stuff. And it’d be a great time to just upgrade your business and get to connect with other like-minded people if you think the retreat route is good for you. So, that’s where you can find Skye or talk to me.
[00:53:53] Skye Gallagher: Thank you Evan.
A Few More Things
And a few more things. When I think about marketing, I think, okay, is this actually going to help my clients? We test it and I’m paying attention to what’s working, what’s not.
I will say, don’t overthink it. It shouldn’t be a scary thing to think of marketing in a different way because you will always win if you speak from the heart. If you speak from the heart in the sense of helping your future clients, then you will always win. That’s truly from the heart when it’s not just about you, your results, and you making rent that month. It’s about let me actually help this person that I really want to help, that will show. It’s a different, higher heart vibration when you are truly thinking about the clients and not just making rent and growing your wealth.
Another thing, quick little story about marketing. I, even myself, I’ll think, oh, let’s call it summer camp, it’s like summer camp. And I realize that telling my story about competitive marching band, people can understand my true passion for this when I tell it that way, rather than just calling it summer camp. Like, it’s summer camp. It’s not complete summer camp, it’s like adult summer camp.
Anyway, number two. In Italy, they actually start testing for celiac around age two. There are gluten-free alternatives. Even if you’re scared to try gluten in Italy, if you’re one of those that doesn’t tolerate it well or can’t have it, they have gluten-free options in Italy as well.
[00:55:30] Detective Ev: I might not risk it then. I might just go right for that.
All right, Skye, thank you so much. I can’t wait to do this. I’ll see you in Greece.
[00:55:36] Skye Gallagher: Thank you. Bye.
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